Nice job, SM on the shortcomings of the episode.  I especially agree with the last two paragraphs.  
I think the writers believe they are painting Jack as a complex character, but the character is more erratic than complex.  So he's set apart from the others in every context--his brooding semi-alliance with AL vs the other losties, among the Thais, and among the Others.  So what?
Kate needs to be smacked around.  Period.  I say feed her to Isabel (who I like, but I believe is superfluous)
The trial and marking make the society of the Others out to be (for lack of a better word) archaic.  Is this supposed to tie back to the ancient four-toed race that presumably populated the island at some point?  Was Dharma co-opted by the original occupants--or vice versa???

ok, I am going to whine.
Most everyone I know ('cept you guys) who used to watch Lost, has lost touch with it & stopped watching.

After last night's eppy, I am worried that our show has Lost it.

Does it say anything about traditional Thai tattooing being done with Chinese characters?  Seemed like a disconnect to me.

The alleged meaning of the tattoo is intersting, but I am feeling more and more like you can't trust anything on this show.  Isabel herself said something like "Chinese characters are very tricky, they can have many meanings."  She basically gave her own disclaimer.  And then Jack adds "that's what they say, that's not what they mean."  So I feel like the writers have left themselves the freedom to reinterpret that sentence at any time.

And BTW, was anyone else dying for Jack to scream at stupid Emma "oh, Ana Lucia killed Shannon and then she herself was murdered by Michael, who only did it to get back his son, whom you people kidnapped!!!"

ETA to WOC: yes, I also felt there was something very primitive and tribal about Juliet's trial and sentencing.  And in the end the sentence was pretty barbaric.  The basically branded her and she was in pain.  And it just didn't track with the Others' vaguely altrustic statemtns about "good people and bad people" and "saving the children" from a life like Kate's.  The position themselves as good people wroking for a greater good, and then they go all Lord of the Flies or The Lottery or whatever

Also, what is the point of marking someone if you put it in a place that can't be seen?  

--Last edited by supermodel on 2007-02-22 12:00:36 --

Quote :

lostscape wrote : ok, I am going to whine. Most everyone I know ('cept you guys) who used to watch Lost, has lost touch with it & stopped watching. After last night's eppy, I am worried that our show has Lost it.

I feel your pain, lol. Wifey is losing interest fast. We used to talk and debate well after each show. Now, she could give a bork.

Quote :

Supermodel wrote : [...]then visit the sketchiest tatoo parlor ever and allow said skank to ink him with a low-tech tool that has clearly been used before.

LOL, it's not really a low tech tool per se. It's a traditional tattoo instrument that was used in many places. Hawaiins, apparently Thais, etc. They are small needle sorta things and are tapped against the skin. Still used in some places too, so not quite as low-tech as it just is a traditional method.

With regards to Jacks tatoos.
Do we know what they say in real life?  

Quote :

Supermodel wrote : And BTW, was anyone else dying for Jack to scream at stupid Emma "oh, Ana Lucia killed Shannon and then she herself was murdered by Michael, who only did it to get back his son, whom you people kidnapped!!!"

I've become numb to the repeated and exhausted directorial ploys aimed at keeping information from being shared between characters.

I felt that Jack didn`t say anything other than "are you kidding" when Emma asked him about Ana Lucia, because it was a kid standing there. And saying she was dead at that point, or starting accusing everyone for her death, might not be the best time since they are in fact children - whether they`re with the others or not lol.

I wondered about Isabel saying they were Chinese characters too. I know they have used religious old tattoos in China too. But I have no idea whether those signs are really Chinese or Thai. I think Bai Ling is Chinese in reality though? Also Chinese symbols are common in tattooing. I don`t know, but it seems like a thing they would have caught if was just a production error. So I`m thinking it was delibarete. I read somewhere (possibly on the Lage) that some of the signs hanging on the walls of her parlour were also in Chinese?  

--Last edited by Rainflower on 2007-02-22 12:07:17 --

Foxy's real tattoo's are Chinese... from Lostpedia (to answer scape, until I find something more concrete):

Jack's tattoo on his left upper arm is one that the actor has in real life. It contains the number 5 and chinese characters. The tattoo reads "Eagles high up, cleaving the space" in Chinese, from a famous poem by Mao Zhedong.

It's not sourced though, so I'm not sure if it's right.

Real life tattoo dissection: http://www.ece.neu.edu/~xzhu/lost_tatoo.html

yeah, I saw on another site somewhere, one means "eagle," I have to look it up.  Of course, Chinese characters are very tricky and can have many interpretations."

I'm sure those tools over at LTV have ten threads with about 13,000 posts on this subject.

Jack's reactions in general don't look that odd to me , that he helps juliet seems natural given his character , it's also a smart move given his position , although she will not be a leader anymore her help can be precious , that's what he tells her when she asks at least .
Doctors do svery stupid things , in real life they stay in the top 3 of smoking socioprofessional categories they are also in top when it comes to antidepressors . Jack had just managed to break his marriage so it doesn't look like he cared about aids hmm and maybe they were using condoms , lol !!

What I found inconsistent was the fact he is having a chinese tatoo in thailand given those languagues have nothing in common , btw I made a serach and came across this :
http://www.ece.neu.edu/~xzhu/lost_tatoo.html
So I'm a bit confused on the message there , does it mean "He is walking among us ..." or "Leader ... " or is it the "Eagles high up, cleaving the space" the latter could somehow mean leader btw , does Mrs sheriff now chinese at all ? .

I'm still finding odd that the girl asks about analucia and my point is if they were just brainwashed to like the others , she should not care about an enemy , but then cindy says it's not that simple .



ETA : meeeeh are we guys having the same reflex or what ? looks like ILE beaten me to the link  

--Last edited by manar on 2007-02-22 12:43:45 --

Based on the preview for next week - it may be a candidate for shark jumping. I love VW Buses but if that is not a 'jump the shark' moment, I'm not sure what is.

The rest of this Season is going to make or break this show - especially with the time change which is not popular.

So far - I rate it 50/50. We need better odds than that.

(and I am an optimist )

Well, the show is still getting about 12 million viewers, plenty of shows would kill for such ratings.  But with episodes like this one, and up against CSI, it could be a dogfight.

I don't think it matters what the Chinese characters really mean.  Fox already had an existing tattoo, the writers wrote it in to the story, but they probably just made up the meaning.  Probably 90% of the viewers won't bother to actually look it up, they'll just accept what they see on the screen.  Which is kind of the point of a TV show.  Not every single detail is an easter egg directed at geeks like us.

As for the whole Chinese/Thai thing... we know they are Chinese characters, he got them in Thailand, but maybe it's just they couldn't make the storyline him getting the tattoos while in china because for some reason it will be important that he's in Thailand?

Chinese characters are very popular, we all know people who got a Chinese tattoo.  Also, the Thai language uses an alphabet, so that sentence would take up his entire arm.

Oh yeah, almost forgot... anyone else get a WTF moment when Jack wakes up dazed in his cell after shutting his piehole during the (quite short) cross-examination?

for those who didn't care much for this epi, perhaps it needs to be looked at in a different light, that perhaps it was nothing more than a transition episode to 1) get Sawyer and Kate back to the Losties Island setting up reunion with the rest of the group.  2) to show that the others are aware of Juliet shooting Danny and reconcilation must be made. 3) Get Jack and the Others over to Lostie Island to facilitate a showdown with the Losties (without boats, the Losties would have a hard time getting to the Hydra Island for any kind of rescue or confrontation.

btw - having looked at caps I now see that the boat Michael and Walt were in was much smaller than last nights boat.  

--Last edited by gardenboy on 2007-02-22 14:56:54 --

I don't think they can afford any 'transition' episodes:


AP - Associated Press - Updated: 5:35 p.m. ET Feb 15, 2007

LOS ANGELES - “Lost” crashed in the ratings this week, hitting an all-time low for a new episode.

ABC’s drama about plane crash survivors stranded on a mysterious island drew an estimated 12.8 million viewers Wednesday, according to preliminary figures from Nielsen Media Research. That’s well off the peak of more than 20 million for the drama that became an instant sensation when it debuted in September 2004.

It was #23 (eek - 23?) for this week's shows.

I am sure there were some tough meetings today in L.A.

ETA: The ratings above were for last week. This weeks ratings are not in yet.....  

--Last edited by Vincent_Madison on 2007-02-22 15:19:34 --

gardenboy wrote:

Quote :

it was nothing more than a transition episode

That's a statement I can support.  They solved three of the writers' problems, but none of the characters' or the viewers' problems!  

--Last edited by supermodel on 2007-02-22 15:30:56 --