About Jacob's list. I personally have always assumed it was made before the crash of flight 815. But what if it was made after the crash? Like this:

Ben sees the plane go down.
He sends Goodwin and Ethan to get the names of the survivors.
He gives the list to Jacob.
Jacob investigates the survivors using the resources of the Initiative and chooses among them.

On different episodes, we hear people are not on the list. Michael was told to bring Jack, Sawyer, Hurley and Kate to the Others. Then we hear Jack is not on Jacob's list. Then we hear Kate is not on the list either because she is "flawed"

This is where our facts end. I'll try to deduce from now on. There are at least two lists, with different names on them, maybe some of them overlap. I'll call "Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley" as Klugh's list. And there is Jacob's list, which doesn't have Jack and Kate.

This makes me think that there is a power struggle in the Others, at least two fractions having different thoughts. Ben made Klugh's list so maybe his ideas conflict with Jacobs'.

I know my theory has holes in it LOL. lets fill them together

ETA: Penny, I just saw your thread in GD. I should read more before I post theories. Sorry  

--Last edited by Algo on 2007-03-18 17:37:21 --

There could be some sort of power struggle between Ben and Jacob - when Mikhail was asked if Ben was this guy - he seemed to react rather strongly and emphasizes that Jacob is a magnificent man.

And all we keep hearing is who ISN`T on the list - it would be nice if we could hear who is on the list lol.

I don`t think Sawyer and Kate was brought there ONLY to be leverage to get Jack to do the surgery. Danny (I think) for example said to Juliet that Ben would rather die than let them escape. Which points to them being more important than just making sure Jack would perform the surgery I think.

A power struggle wouldn't surprise me. As it seems Ben did want, at the very least, Jack but he wasn't on Jacob's list. When Danny had mentioned it at the rock crushing place, it was kinda like, "I don't even understand why we have him over here, Jacob didn't want him."

But they also seem hesitant to disobey Ben... Juliet seemed the only one willing to go against them. There's no doubt in my mind that they REALLY wanted Juliet killed after she killed Danny... but regardless, Ben said no, so they didn't. Even at his weakest point when any of them could have overthrown him, they didn't. I'd say maybe they feel they have no other choice, no one above Ben, but Mikhail noted that Ben was not the magnificent man he spoke of, so they know there is someone higher up than him. Maybe they don't question it because they simply can't?

Let's say Jacob is not on the island, he is somewhere in the "real" world... the sky has turned purple, communications are down - there's nothing they can do to try to make word known of trouble amongst the ranks.

This is one reason I have for wondering if Ben wanted the button to go unpushed.. he had his own agenda with the list he made, and didn't want interference from someone higher up who had no reason for these people.

I agree, Rain. And Ben tells Kate that the next two weeks are going to be unpleasant. Why would they be unpleasant if only to be used as leverage?

The only leverage they needed to get Jack to do the surgery was the promise of going home.

That is a good point about the button pushing ILE. Maybe that is way Ben allowed Danielle to capture him and bring him to the Losties - realizing there was no other place to put him but in the hatch. And the Others seems to have good knowledge about what is going on - they might have been watching what was happening in the Swan the whole time, and Ben realized if he only planted the idea in Locke`s head, sooner or later he would not push the button.

Yes, I forgot about those "unpleasant" two weeks. You`re right, if they were only going to use them as leverage they could have just kept them locked up in the cages and occasionally given them food, until Jack had performed the surgery.

Someone had to help build the road/landing strip/ heliopad/ whatever. Breaking rocks and hauling dirt can be considered unpleasant, that may be what he meant, she was going to be forced labor. And someone doing hard labor and only getting fish bisquits to eat is pretty cruel...but a great weight lose program.

There were already plenty other people at that rock site, just bringing Sawyer and Kate for purely that reason is stupid, imo.

They were captured to give them leverage to have Jack do the surgery. But they weren't going to lounge about, they were going to work hard so their weather beaten appearance would help convince Jack. And if they got a bit more road work done, all the better.
And what is with the rest of those workers? Basically chain gang labor under armed guards. Which side do you think they'll choose if the Hostiles come under fire from the Losties?

I'd like to see how many deceased people were on the original Jacob list.